A Biography of Flags

Rooted in Soccer

Zoe: What do you think, started your love of flags or your interest in them?

Guy: Soccer. Definitely soccer. Because it's such a big part of the game. It's very tribal. Colors, symbols mean everything to soccer supporters. Wanting to show that I was a part of this tribe when following the US women's team, I draped myself in those symbols et cetera.

It's my way of, you know, at least to the outside world showing who I am through symbols, through signs. A way of being out, so to speak. It is a bit of a biography of who I am.

Fun fact: my father, when most boys would be playing football, he had me play soccer because he played football and he had a pinched nerve in his neck. He was a linebacker and would love to tackle headfirst and spear people with his head. He saw the same kind of aggressiveness in me and said, Nope, I think soccer is safer.

But, I was just as aggressive, you know, he probably did make the right call.

Guy: It's fun. Um, soccer games, especially now, in the US specifically fun outings. When we were growing up, soccer was the nerd sport and the old school sports commentators didn't give a shit about the game. You know, that foreign funny game where they dive all the time. And now, this next generation of folks who go and set themselves in the culture have completely uplifted what we have started.

It's one of the things that brought Lori and I together. She is a deep sports fan from way back. Our first years together as a couple involved phone calls when I was living in Fremont and she was in Oakland, we would be watching the same game.

To this day, I have a hard time doing solo sports, exercising by myself, but you get a group of folks who are like, Hey, let's go play volleyball. I'm like, Okay, I'm down. Let's go. I've always been a team sport person.

 Zoe: And that's really interesting that the flags originate there too. From my perspective, this early thing you identify with is linked to flags and you bring it into your later life

Guy: And like in my queer life! Yeah. It's my way of, you know, at least to the outside world showing who I am through symbols, through signs. A way of being out, so to speak. It is a bit of a biography of who I am.

American Flag

Guy: The story behind why have it? It was back in 1999. There was a women's world cup in this country and I am a deeply devout soccer fan. So, a friend and I went to various games in California. We were fortunate enough to be there at the Rose bowl at the final. I felt, for this moment, very proud as a soccer fan and as an American celebrating the women's team. I bought an American flag exclusively for that and then brought it with me.

And one of the things I knew going in was how politically charged an American flag is. So I almost approached it like owning a gun. I learned how you're supposed to display it. You know, what's the flag code, how you're supposed to properly fold it.

You know, I got to the snobbery point where I'd see it in a window, the wrong way I 'd go and say you need to flip your flag. Um, but you know I understood the political ramifications of using a flag and, you know, I've incorporated it in a couple of art projects, including, some erotic photography involving the flag and things like that, knowing fully well how charged it was. There are photos of me blindfolded by the flag, harkening to the photos from the torture at Abu Grabe. Things like that.

So it's very important to me, that flag.

California

Zoe: What motivated you to get a California flag?

Guy: In the case of all of these flags, you know, they represent some part of me. I moved out here in 1997 and have been here long enough that I feel Californian and wanted to represent that.

And also I bought it so I could fly something politically that wasn't the American flag. That represented at least in part my politics--even though California's politics, aren't perfect. And so, you know, I use the California flag instead of flying the current US flag when I'm feeling patriotic.

Zoe: I think there's probably a movement to fly state flags more. To be honest, I think, the American flag with the California flag would be less immediately negative.

Guy: Yeah. It's a nice buffer to let people know. Okay. You know I love being here, but this is not me. This more represents my views.

Zoe: I know when I see the American flag, I get the creeps now. Um, with the exception of If it's at half-mast when I know something has happened. Do you think we're going to end up with a new flag at the end of all this?

Guy: Only if we get two more States. I don't think so. It’s far too representative of our country. I agree with you. It depends for me now what the situation is when I see it. The everyday symbolism where, you know, you see it outside of a school or a government building, I'm used to that. But when you see somebody flying it off the back of the pickup or not on a porch flag, but, you know, hanging in their windows, it's taken on a very right-wing connotation.

The Columbus Crew.

Guy: Let's see. Uh, Oh, my soccer flag.

So this is a team whose logo no longer exists. Now as a queer person, you're going to see this logo and you will immediately conjure a specific image. This is a team that's from Columbus, Ohio, and they are called The Crew.

You know being a soccer fan, you get the gear, you dress up for games and things like that. I lived in Ohio when the current US league started and, followed Columbus and I bought a couple of hard hats, and I would actually wear hard hats to games. The idea was that they were a blue-collar team, the hardest working team. And so that was the imagery.

I'm retired from supporters group stuff. I'm far too old and achy to stand in and sing for two hours. Now I'll just sit with my pretzel and water. And yell. I do a lot of yelling.

The banter, just the back-and-forth shit talking between fans is wonderful. I went to a US-England game in Chicago and was a part of the US supporters’ group and had a red hard hat. And as we were cheering on the US, the English fans of the next section took one look at me and started going, Y M C A and I couldn't do anything except laugh. They were right.

I'm retired from supporters group stuff. I'm far too old and achy to stand in and sing for two hours. Now I'll just sit with my pretzel and water. And yell. I do a lot of yelling.

Ohio State Flag

Guy: This is the Ohio state flag, and it is unique in state flags because it tapers instead of being a full, rectangular flag. I was born in Cincinnati and went to college at the university of Akron, grew up basically in the corners of the state of Ohio. In Cleveland and Cincinnati. I have a lot of Ohio pride. Two, three years ago and I said, You know, I think I need to get a nice Ohio flag.

There was a recent news story in South Carolina who has a really wonderful minimalist flag. Just an Indigo background, a Palmetto tree and a Crescent moon. And they decided to update the look of the flag and they changed the Palmetto tree.  And the tree looked horrible and the citizenry let them know, cause it looked like a dying tree. It wasn't very full with leaves. It was just kind of a scraggly tree. And, you know, for once they listened to the citizenry and just all they needed to do was change the tree to be a fuller looking healthy tree.

Leather Pride Flag

When I first moved out to California, I worked at stormy leather. And I got the leather pride flag for that. Funny story about a leather pride flag, not this particular one: There is a supporters’ group, for the local soccer team and the colors of the team are blue, black, and red. And one of the supporters had a leather pride flag in the supporters group. And this was the hardcore, these are the Ultras--that is the name of the group. And these are the hardcore shirts-off guys. It was the most leathery thing I'd ever seen. I never approached the person saying if he knew what he was flying. It was perfect for the colors of the team. I don't see them flying it anymore. It's been a couple of seasons. So I'm wondering if somebody, you know, set them aside was like, You know what this is about? Those of us who knew were like--it was wonderful.

Zoe: Do you fly the leather pride flag during the street fair?

Guy: Folsom? Yep. We rent our space. So I asked permission if I could, get a flag bracket to start displaying porch flags. I’ve had this leather pride flag almost 15 years now. And that was the first time I've really gotten to display it.

Black Lives Matter and the African American Flag

Guy: Just recently, even though I have this collection, I've gotten into the geekery of flags and the discussions of things like, never put words on a flag that flies. Well, not necessarily never, but the best flags don't have words. And, you know, I thought about that and I was like, why is that?

But you know, when you display a flag, if there's no wind, you don't see the flag.

And so even though, you know I have a lot of pride with my Black Lives Matter flag, I realize most of the time, most people can't read it.

Zoe: I don't know. My thought on that is that Black Lives Matter is also so graphically recognizable at this point. --I just noticed that you match your Black Lives Matter flag.

Guy: Beyonce designed Ivy park pajamas. That was completely unintentional.

Zoe: It looks good though.

I realized that this was a flag that represented this entire family.

Guy: Yeah, well, that’s [African American Flag] what I've used in its place, which is a much more graphic representation. And it’s probably what, at least when I fly it in the neighborhood, the one that gets the most looks. My red, black and green American flag. The African-American flag. So you've got the African colors in the stars and stripes. And as strongly as people feel about the American flag, any type of altering of that flag tends to draw the eye and draw a lot of attention. Nothing negative that I know of so far, but I notice a lot more looks at our porch flag when I fly that.

Mourning Ribbon

Guy: So when I found out that I could have a porch flag, when I thought about, in what situations I would fly the stars and stripes, one of the things that came up was a politician's death. And when John Lewis died, I realized I couldn't really properly display a flag at half-staff.

I looked up: how do you display a porch flag at half-staff? That's when I found out about a mourning ribbon. It's just a long black strip that you connect at the top of the pole to whatever flag you're flying. And so, when John Lewis died during the mourning period of celebrating the life of John Lewis, I put out the American flag, as well as the African-American flag and connected the ribbon to it.

I did the same for, with Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

Progressive Pride Flag

So let me show you my newest flag. My, my two kids, my twins, one identifies as non-binary, the other identifies as trans.

The trans child has a trans flag, which I have flown. (After we found it in all the mess of the rooms.) The nonbinary kid has a pride flag. And what I saw that has been developed is what's called the progressive pride flag. Um, you know, that these two queer kids with queer parents--I realized that this was a flag that represented this entire family. And so this latest one I bought is the progressive pride flag.

Guy: It's a very nice design. And I think what I will probably fly this all June.

Zoe: Do your twins like to play soccer?

Guy: They've played. I find youth soccer in a strange place right now in this country. It is for the people with money. It costs a lot of money to play soccer as a kid in this country.

I'd love to go to a game in Portland. Portland kind of sets the standard in the US for soccer fandom. They've got an entire end of a stadium full of singing, constantly singing noisy, rowdy. Lefty flying the Antifa flag fans, you know, anti-racist openly anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-homophobic fans and proud of it. They've got a lumber Jack who actually chainsaws a slice of wood every time we score goal. It's silly. And it's fun. Uh, it's a spectacle.

There is one [Men’s World Cup] coming up in 2026 that's going to be in the US and Canada and Mexico. I plan to go to that one. I've never traveled. I have barely traveled outside of this country. I've been to Toronto. That's the end of my international travel. But, I'm planning on going to the one in 2026. So that'll be my first Men's World Cup.

I'm packing up the family and we're traveling across the country, whether they like it or not. I know Lori's down. It's a matter of convincing the kids.

Zoe: How old would will they be in four years?

Guy: They'll be 16. Old enough that they can take care of themselves here, but do I want to leave two 16-year-olds in charge of the house while we're traipsing across the country? I'm not too sure about it.

This has been your queer sports broadcast.

Guy Gayle (He/Him/His) is the Cincinnati-born, soccer-lovin’, flag-wavin’ Black freaky, geeky man-mountain of Oakland, California. He lives with his partner in crime, Lori, and together they are raising the baddest fucking twins you ever met. Shout out to Abundant Beginnings for planting the activist seeds in our soon-to-be-teens.